path: root/meeting-logs/20210808.txt

<@ulm> !proj council
<willikins> (council@gentoo.org) dilfridge, gyakovlev, marecki, mattst88,
            mgorny, sam, ulm
<@ulm> agenda is here:
       https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/a80b7851eeaa92e45b0c87cd77a077e3
<@ulm> 1. Roll call
* gyakovlev here
* mattst88 here
* dilfridge here
* sam_ here
* mgorny here
* ulm here                                                              [21:01]
* Marecki here
<@ulm> excellent
<@ulm> 2. Ban EAPI 5
<@ulm>
       https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/981157fc4524d8101c2030e0485a0870
<@mattst88> let's do it
<@ulm> the proposal is to do it the traditional way for now
<@dilfridge> yes
<@sam_> yes please                                                      [21:02]
<@ulm> motion: ban EAPI 5 for ebuilds in the Gentoo repository
<@Marecki> yes
* sam_ yes
* mattst88 yes
* gyakovlev yes
* dilfridge yes
* Marecki yes
* mgorny yes
* ulm yes
<@ulm> that's unanimous
<@ulm> thanks :)
<@ulm> 3. Operating model of Gentoo project and Gentoo Foundation
<@ulm>
       https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/2fea68fbd3a193098fd97ddac04a3e3d
                                                                        [21:03]
<@mgorny> ulm: for clarity, maybe add 'for *new* ebuilds'
<+antarus> that is 'the traditional way'; afaik
<@ulm> mgorny: yeah, let's add the word. unless someone would object?
<@dilfridge> you're still here? your date is waiting!
<@mattst88> nope, sounds good to me
<@dilfridge> ulm: do it
<+antarus> dilfridge: ceiling antarus is always watching
<@Marecki> No objection from me                                         [21:04]
<@ulm> antarus: do you want to comment, or should we postpone the discussion
       to next month?
<@dilfridge> let's postpone it
<+antarus> no i don't have time to have a useful converseation
* dilfridge didnt prepare
<@mgorny> maybe he meant date the fruit
<@ulm> ok, let's postpone to september then                             [21:05]
<@ulm> moving on
<@ulm> 4. Open bugs with Council participation
<@ulm> bug 736760
<willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/736760 "Application to Software
            Freedom Conservancy"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF;
            mgorny:trustees
<@sam_> trustees advised me that we're unlikely to see progress/change until
        post-election
<@ulm> ok
<@ulm> so no action for now, I guess?                                   [21:06]
<+antarus> nothing needed from you
<@ulm> bug 784710
<willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/784710 "Remove SHA512 hash from
            Manifests"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; mgorny:council
<@mgorny> i think we should reject it
<@ulm> I think the tendency on the ML was against it
<@dilfridge> just close it as wontfix and keep things as they are now
<@mattst88> works for me
<@gyakovlev> yeah feedback was mostly negative                          [21:07]
<@ulm> action: close as WONTFIX
<@ulm> bug 793164
<willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/793164 "GLEP 82: Repository
            configuration file (layout.conf)"; Documentation, New GLEP
            submissions; IN_P; mgorny:glep
<@ulm> never ending GLEP :)
<@sam_> I wonder which edit will appear once we're done with it this time :)
                                                                        [21:08]
<@dilfridge> what#s still missing there?
<@ulm> mgorny: is this ready for yet another vote, or do we give it more time
       for discussion?
<@mgorny> ulm: hmm, we need to mark it final, right?
<@ulm> we could also wait for implementation and then vote for Final status
<@mgorny> but there's next bug about updating it ;-)
<@dilfridge> ehm, this is afaik implemented
<@sam_> bug 806830
<willikins> sam_: https://bugs.gentoo.org/806830 "glep-0082: Add
            profile-eapis-* keys"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF;
            mgorny:glep
<@ulm> mgorny: is the implementation for thie ready?                    [21:09]
<@ulm> *this
<@ulm> i.e. for profile-eapis-*
<@mgorny> no, i've planned to start implementing once it's approved
<@mgorny> overall, 'implementation' for glep 82 is somewhat special since not
          all keys are mandatory
<@ulm> ok, then                                                         [21:10]
<@mgorny> i would vote for adding the new keys, then for marking it final
          since most of it is implemented already
<@ulm> motion: accept profile-eapis-* keys in GLEP 82
* dilfridge yes
* Marecki yes
* gyakovlev yes
<@ulm> as specified in the bug
* mattst88 yes
* mgorny yes
* sam_ yes
* ulm yes
<@ulm> unanimous
<@mgorny> ftr, eapis-testing is ready to be merged into pkgcheck        [21:11]
<@ulm> good
<@ulm> bug 801937
<willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/801937 "Translators' requests on wiki
            are blocked since november 2019"; Websites, Wiki; IN_P; marco:wiki
<@mgorny> ulm: can we also mark the glep final?
<@dilfridge> this has been unblocked
<@sam_> we've had some great progress with translations finally happening
        again
<@ulm> mgorny: you said it's not yet implemented?
<@mattst88> awesome, that's great to hear
<@mattst88> I find it bizarre that we ended up in this position. do we know
            what went wrong with the process that lead to nearly 2 years of
            requests being ignored?                                     [21:12]
<@mgorny> ulm: i've said that most of the keys are optional, so probably no
          point in requiring implementation of all of them
<@mgorny> mattst88: bus factor of one?
<@ulm> mgorny: let's do it next month, it's not really blocking anything
<@mgorny> ulm: ok
<@mattst88> mgorny: I know grknight said he wasn't going to do it anymore, but
            we've got a Wiki team, right?
<@ulm> maffblaster and yours truly have done all the backlog of translator
       requests                                                         [21:13]
<@ulm> so we should be up to date by now
<@ulm> the question is how to prevent this from happening again in future?
<@dilfridge> well, keep the bus factor at least at 2
<@mattst88> well, I'm really asking how did the Wiki team not know that there
            was such a backlog
<@dilfridge> I guess maffblaster was thinking grknight was doing it     [21:14]
<@mgorny> is there a good reason why we need to approve translators
          explicitly?
<@mattst88> having a backlog isn't a problem, but e.g. absolutely nothing
            happening in 18 months indicates a different problem
<@ulm> mgorny: I guess the idea was to keep track of new languages
<@mattst88> I guess I'm asking -- did other members of the Wiki project know
            that there were a bunch of people waiting to be approved?
<@dilfridge> which other members                                        [21:15]
<@sam_> apparently the software is kind of hard to read too
<@mattst88> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Wiki
<@mattst88> maffblaster, mgorny, polynomial-c
<@dilfridge> poly does technical stuff afaik
<@dilfridge> so it boiled down to maff and grknight
<@mattst88> the 18 months of not approving anyone else suggests to me that
            there was a communication issue and that people who were able to
            handle this didn't know about it                            [21:16]
<@mattst88> rather than someone just being lazy and not doing it or whatever
<@mgorny> ulm: since you've handled the requests, is there any documentation
          how it all works? i.e. how we could do it in the future?
<@mgorny> if not, can you write that down somewhere?
<@ulm> mgorny: none that I was aware of, but I can write the steps down
                                                                        [21:17]
<@ulm> I'll also keep an eye on that page
<@mattst88> ... nobody knows the answer to my question?
<@mgorny> mattst88: gentoo wiki is complex
<@ulm> well, obviously there was a problem with information flow
<@dilfridge> mattst88: I think maff assumed that grknight is doing it
<+soap> mattst88: maybe people that dont want to work together?
<@dilfridge> which was not the case                                     [21:18]
<@mgorny> i didn't knwo about the problem until it has been pointed out
          publicly
<@mgorny> then, i didn't know how to resolve it ;-)
<@sam_> I think there was a minor issue with the software being confusing but
        I don't think that was the main problem
<@ulm> yeah, it's a little tricky
<@sam_> I THINK, somewhere in my logs, I have grknight getting fed up of doing
        it
<@dilfridge> also, there have been delays with the translator requests in the
             past, but never such a long one
<@mattst88> dilfridge: okay, sounds like whatever the mechanism for requesting
            translator access doesn't/didn't email anyone (other than maybe
            grknight)?
<@dilfridge> dunno
<@mgorny> well, i've added that page to my watchlist now                [21:19]
<@mgorny> i didn't really know it had existed before
<@ulm> I think that watching that page doesn't work because it uses a special
       comments plugin
<@mattst88> okay, so that's all people need to do? watch the requests page,
            right?
<@mattst88> oh, dang
<@mgorny> how about we ask people to request it on bugzilla?
<@ulm> I can talk to maffblaster about changing it to a standard page
<@mattst88> either of those sounds fine to me -- I just want to avoid a repeat
            in the future :)                                            [21:20]
<@dilfridge> semantic horror from beneath the waves mediawiki old one
<@mattst88> heh
<@ulm> so, we close the bug, and I'm going to talk to maff?             [21:21]
<@dilfridge> ++
<@sam_> i'd like to keep it open until we have some sort of final action to
        avoid it happening in future
<@sam_> but not going to be stubborn on this
<@mgorny> ulm: let's keep it open
<@ulm> wfm
<@ulm> can we move on?                                                  [21:22]
<@ulm> 5. Open floor
<@ulm> anyone?
<@ulm> apparently not                                                   [21:23]
<@ulm> then let's move to the private channel for the last topic
<@ulm> anything else?                                                   [21:42]
<@dilfridge> not from me                                                [21:43]
*** ulm (~ulm@gentoo/developer/ulm) has set the topic for #gentoo-council:
    "217th meeting: 2021-09-12 19:00 UTC |
    https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20210912T19 |
    https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council |
    https://dev.gentoo.org/~dilfridge/decisions.html"
<@ulm> meeting is closed then
<@dilfridge> \o/
<@sam_> \o/                                                             [21:44]
<@ulm> mgorny: you'll be chairing in september